Oberon Community Platform Forum

Support => Installation => Topic started by: dukester on June 23, 2010, 11:16:15 PM



Title: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 23, 2010, 11:16:15 PM
Hi....

I've got an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ box begging to run something decent on it, rather than the WinDoze XP stuff  that's bogging it down at the moment. ;-))

I want to install Linux and some incarnation of "native" Oberon. Is it possible? Will Oberon live quietly and happily in its own partition? Does it require the first partition? What about a bootloader? Does it need to be installed first? I'm leaning towards installing  Ubuntu or Xubuntu - does Oberon have anything against these two guys?

Advise & recommendations, please! TIA...
--
Duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: staubesv on June 24, 2010, 11:28:24 AM
It is possible, Oberon lives quietly and happily in its own partition. Does't require to be the first partition, the Oberon boot loader will be the first sector of the "Oberon" partition. Does not need to be installed first. Does not care about other operating systems and will not interfere with their boot managers (unless you install the A2 boot manager).

To boot the A2 partition, you need a boot manager that is able to execute a sector image (first sector of Oberon partition), which all boot managers I know can do.

Installation:
A2: Burn CD-ROM image found on http://www.bluebottle.ethz.ch/download.html, boot from CD, graphical installer in Main Menu -> System -> Installer.
The installer will do anything needed except boot strapping.
To boot the A2 partition, you need a boot manager that is able to execute a sector image (first sector of Oberon partition), which all boot managers I know can do (you could of course put Oberon into the active primary partition but most likely you don't want this on a multi-boot machine).

For A2, some additional information on installation can be found at http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/Documentation/Installation

Hints:
- A FAT32 partition is useful since it can be mounted from both Linux and A2
- The A2 boot manager can also start other operating systems as Linux


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 24, 2010, 04:00:58 PM
Thanks! Looks like I have  a lot of reading to do before I tackle this job. I think that I'll do the following:

1. partition HD into 2

2. Install Ubuntu in 1st partition

3. Install A2 in 2nd partition, and Bluebottle Boot Manager

I may still need to install Grub or Lilo, but NOT in the MBR - just in the Linux partition.

Sounds correct?
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: staubesv on June 24, 2010, 04:13:40 PM
Quote
Looks like I have  a lot of reading to do before I tackle this job.
No, actually you don't have to.

When you have partitioned your HD into 2 partitions (don't forget that an additional FAT partition would be handy to exchange data between the OSs), just boot from the A2 CD-ROM, start the installer, select the partition where you want to install A2 and press a few times on the "next" button. This results in a working A2 installation (with the exception that you need a boot manager to boot it).

Boot Manager:
The Bluebottle boot manager can also start Linux. You will need an Linux boot loader and yes, if you want to use the Bluebottle boot manager, the Linux boot loader must be located on the Linux partition (not MBR, since BBM resides there).

BTW: To install the Bluebottle Boot Manager, start Main Menu -> Files -> Partitions. There, select your HD (i.e. "partition 0" of it). In the tabs of the Partition Tool, go to the "A2" tab and press on Install Boot Manager (and on "Ok" in the popup window). The Bluebottle Boot Manager does not need any further configuration.


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 24, 2010, 05:08:00 PM
When you have partitioned your HD into 2 partitions (don't forget that an additional FAT partition would be handy to exchange data between the OSs), just boot from the A2 CD-ROM, start the installer, select the partition where you want to install A2 and press a few times on the "next" button. This results in a working A2 installation (with the exception that you need a boot manager to boot it).

Good idea about creating a small FAT partition. Does it matter if its the 3rd partition? Also, are you suggesting that I install A2 first? Can I partition the HD from the A2 installer?

Quote
Boot Manager:
The Bluebottle boot manager can also start Linux. You will need an Linux boot loader and yes, if you want to use the Bluebottle boot manager, the Linux boot loader must be located on the Linux partition (not MBR, since BBM resides there).

I've never done a Linux install - just FreeBSD and openBSD. Does Ubuntu, e.g. ask you where you want to install its boot loader?

Quote
BTW: To install the Bluebottle Boot Manager, start Main Menu -> Files -> Partitions. There, select your HD (i.e. "partition 0" of it). In the tabs of the Partition Tool, go to the "A2" tab and press on Install Boot Manager (and on "Ok" in the popup window). The Bluebottle Boot Manager does not need any further configuration.

Will automatically detect that Linux is there?
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: staubesv on June 24, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
Quote
Good idea about creating a small FAT partition. Does it matter if its the 3rd partition?
No, it doesn't.

Quote
Also, are you suggesting that I install A2 first?
No, in contrast to some other well-known operating systems, A2 won't "take over" your computer and ignore the rest of the world. The installation of A2 only affects the partition where you install it. It does not matter whether you first install A2 or Linux.

Quote
Can I partition the HD from the A2 installer?
Yes, you can use the Partition Tool (Main Menu -> Files -> Partitions) to partition the harddisk. I have to admit, though, the the usabilty of that tool is no so great... Hint: Both the A2 installer and Linux installer won't care much about the type of the partition...

Quote
Does Ubuntu, e.g. ask you where you want to install its boot loader?
It's quite some time ago when I last time installed a Linux distribution. IIRC, you typically can specify during the installation whether LILO is installed to the MBR or the target partition.

Quote
Will automatically detect that Linux is there?
The Bluebottle boot manager just shows a list of all partitions and highlights the ones it thinks are bootable. By pressing the number of a partition, its boot sector is loaded and executed. This works also for Linux if a boot loader is on the respective partition. That's why there is no need for configuration  8)





Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 24, 2010, 08:18:42 PM
Super! Thanks for the info. I just DLed A2. Need to burn a CD and then DL Ubuntu, and the fun begins. ;) I hope that I won't need to change the caption on my avatar for this forum, to: trying to get Linux and Oberon installed on one HD ;)

BTW, I meant to ask you, what about installing Linux and A2 on 2 different HDs? Have you done _that_?
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 25, 2010, 12:01:49 AM
No Joy!

I burned A2 on a CD with "verify" on my IMac. No probs...

Loaded the CD up, the machine finds the CD and tries to boot off of it, but all I get is a black screen and a spinning CD drive. After 10 minutes, I'm still hungry. Maybe I need a pizza, or some bratwurst and beer - something! Maybe my ATI Radeon 9000 graphics isn't supported - I'll have to check. AMD Athlon-XP 2000+ (Palomino) should be pretty standard - but I better check that too.
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: sage on June 25, 2010, 08:21:31 AM
Try ExtMemSize option http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/forum/index.php/topic,320.0.html


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: staubesv on June 25, 2010, 09:04:07 AM
Don't worry about your ATI graphics and Athlon CPU - these will work.

Try the following:
1. When booting, hold down the SHIFT key. This will bring you into a simple command line of the Oberon boot loader
2. Type "TraceMode=1" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
3. Type "Init=" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
4. Type "c" (without quotes) followed by ENTER

This will cause A2 not to switch into graphics mode and shown some trace output. In particular, have a look whether A2 finds some disk controllers (messages: ATADisks: ...) AND some disk devices.

If not, boot again and in addition to the configuration mentioned above set "ATADetect=legacy".

There is also a quite extensive troubleshooter on such issues (http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/Documentation/Installation#toc11).



Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 25, 2010, 01:55:38 PM
Try ExtMemSize option http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/forum/index.php/topic,320.0.html

Do I set that the same way that Sven is asking me to set some other stuff in this same thread?
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 25, 2010, 01:58:45 PM
Don't worry about your ATI graphics and Athlon CPU - these will work.

Try the following:
1. When booting, hold down the SHIFT key. This will bring you into a simple command line of the Oberon boot loader
2. Type "TraceMode=1" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
3. Type "Init=" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
4. Type "c" (without quotes) followed by ENTER

This will cause A2 not to switch into graphics mode and shown some trace output. In particular, have a look whether A2 finds some disk controllers (messages: ATADisks: ...) AND some disk devices.

If not, boot again and in addition to the configuration mentioned above set "ATADetect=legacy".

There is also a quite extensive troubleshooter on such issues (http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/Documentation/Installation#toc11).

OK! I'll try these recommendations. I'll get back to you.... ;)

Meanwhile, did you read my new post in the "General Discussion" Forum? I sure would like your feedback; and Sages, and all the other regulars. ;)
--
duke


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: sage on June 25, 2010, 03:03:03 PM
Do I set that the same way that Sven is asking me to set some other stuff in this same thread?
Yes, the same way as Sven recomended to change TraceMode in boot console:
Quote
Try the following:
1. When booting, hold down the SHIFT key. This will bring you into a simple command line of the Oberon boot loader
2. Type "ExtMemSize=1500" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
3. Type "c" (without quotes) followed by ENTER
ExtMemSize=1500 worked in my case (on PC and laptop both, amount of installed RAM - 2G). You may investigate what value for it will be suitable for your system taking into account the amount of installed RAM.


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 25, 2010, 04:26:42 PM
@sage

Thanks for the details! I have 1G of RAM in this box. Don't know what my video card would use of that. It has it' own I'm sure.

So I set ExtMemSize=750 => no joy!

Also, this machine has an Award BIOS. I can't find anything in the BIOS setup that says SATA, ATA, IDE, whatever. Maybe there's another config option that means the same?

Bottom line, black screen, CD drive busy, eyelids drooping, yawning, and this is in the middle of the day, _after_ a good night's sleep. ;)


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: staubesv on June 28, 2010, 09:01:44 AM
Have you tried the "TraceMode... " settings?

Well, actually "TraceMode..." isn't supposed to solve the problem but has the potential to provide some important information for diagnosis.

Quote
Also, this machine has an Award BIOS. I can't find anything in the BIOS setup that says SATA, ATA, IDE, whatever. Maybe there's another config option that means the same?

First we should find out whether IDE is causing the problems at all.

-> Try to enable display tracing as described in this thread. If you get too much output, unset all the Boot, Boot1, Boot2, ... configuration strings (Boot= followed by ENTER, Boot1= followed by ENTER, ...).


Title: Re: Installing Linux & Oberon "native" on 1 HD
Post by: dukester on June 28, 2010, 01:51:52 PM
@Sven

JOY to the world (and Duke) !
   A2 has boot....

I must have had a bad CD burn, because I burned a new CD, and bingo, bango, up came A2. Pissed me off, because this happened while I was watching England getting its ass kicked by Germany at the World Cup. ;) I'm going to put some TV technology in my computer rooms "Real soon now"

I'm going to play with the LiveCD version for a day or two, while I decide on a Linux distribution to install - maybe Knoppix; maybe Debian or Xubuntu.

Thanks for all your help! You too Sage...
--
Duke