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Author Topic: System bus required by Bluebottle.  (Read 9739 times)
peasthope
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« on: June 18, 2008, 08:06:46 PM »

Sven,

Thanks for answering the question about OBL and BBL.
Now I must consider a lower level.

http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/instreq.html
has no mention of the system bus.  Does Bluebottle
require a PCI bus?  Can a sentence indicating such
requirement, or absence thereof be added, please?

The machine where installation failed last is a Toshiba
Satellite 205CDS.  According to Toshiba specs and
confirmed by PCITools.Scan it does not have a PCI
bus.  Also, I am told that some recent machines
(microATX or Mini-ITX?) lack the PCI bus.

Thanks,            ... Peter E.
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staubesv
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 08:46:57 AM »

Bluebottle/AOS does not really need a PCI bus, but if your system does not have a PCI bus (or compatible, see below), you won't have many device drivers (most AOS device drivers are for PCI devices, as ATA disk driver, for example). Then the question is: How can you install/operate an operating system without having access to devices? You could, of course, write drivers for whatever hardware you have, but this requires time...

PCI: There are other busses the are compatible with PCI from a software point of view: AGP (well, this is a port, actually), PCI-X, PCIe (sometimes referred to as PCI family).
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staubesv
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 01:39:53 PM »

Hmm... How could you run PCITools.Scan on this machine? The drivers required for ATA or USB storage devices are PCI device drivers... If you used Native Oberon, what disk driver do you use?
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peasthope
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 05:01:36 PM »

Sven & others,

NO installs on the Toshiba 205CDS from the Oberon0 diskette.

ss> If you used Native Oberon, what disk driver do you use?

ATA as with any 386 or 486. 

ss> How could you run PCITools.Scan on this machine? The
drivers required for ATA or USB storage devices are PCI
device drivers...

With limited knowledge of hardware I can only offer two
hypothetical answers.
* The machine has ISA.  It is not mentioned in the Toshiba specs.
* The specs in http://www.toshiba.com/ list "Two Stacked
  PC Card Slots".  This is similar to or synonmous with
  CardBus which is similar to PCI.  Hypothetically ATA
  could connect via the PC Card circuitry.

In any case I'll offer a criticism/suggestion.  Given the similarity
of CardBus and PCI, software for the two might be integrated. 
PCITools could be renamed Busses.  Then Busses.Scan might
detect PC Card support; but if the PC Card connects via an ISA
bus I'll guess this is impossible.

If all else fails, I can open the machine and look at the chips.

Thanks,          ... Peter E.
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staubesv
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 08:25:06 AM »

I closer look at the source code revealed that the old NO ATA disk driver supported at max. 2 IDE controllers with the default configuration (Primary: I/O:1F0H, IRQ 14 + Secondary: I/O: 170H, IRQ 15).
The AOS ATA disk driver supports more controllers and gathers this information (I/O base address + IRQ line) from the PCI configuration space. It enumerates the PCI bus to find these controllers. That's why I does not recognized your IDE controller since it's not a PCI device.

Solution: Setting the config string "ATADetect=legacy" will force the AOS ATA disk driver to assume that there are two legacy (primary/secondary) IDE controllers using the "default" configuration (therefore, the PCI scan is not necessary since the configuration is already known).

In contrast to the NO driver, it's not possible anymore to limit the driver to the primary controller, but this could be changed if necessary.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 08:27:23 AM by staubesv » Logged
peasthope
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 02:54:08 PM »

Sven,

> Solution: Setting the config string "ATADetect=legacy" ...

Good!  Thanks!  Will try to get back to that machine
next week.

Thanks,         ... Peter E.
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peasthope
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 06:44:49 PM »

Sven & others,

I've just worked through the installation again
on the Toshiba 205CDS and on the HP Pavilion 6360.

When the Pavilion starts these characters appear.
OBER
Nothing more happens.

Andre's AosSetup.Text, Section "6. BBL in action" states,
When BBL starts, the letters of "Bluebottle loading" appear ...

So either Andre's document is wrong or I have a
problem with the boot loader.  Tracing the kernel
log seems unnecessary before this is resolved.

I'll work with the Toshiba a little more before
discussing it.

Thanks for any help,      ... Peter E.
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andre
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 07:44:22 AM »

Peter,

Yes, AosSetup.Text is wrong, was not updated, and I apologize for that.
Issuing "Bluebottle loading" consumed too many precious bytes out of 4 blocks.
Issuing "OBER.... ", as it used to exist earlier, was re-instated to make room for other changes.
Granted, that is obviously confusing, but a a mere text change. So were is your hurdle?

The same "6. BBL in action" gives a clue:
"Blue (alias OBER) The signature was valid, the remaining part of the boot loader was authentified.
The boot table, containing configuration strings, will be read. If its structure is faulty the system will hang: ..."

If you used Sven's WMInstaller to install, the configuration data would have been placed correctly for sure.
If you used AosInst.Tool, did you exploit section "4. Set configuration strings?"

That's the best guess and I bet you'll not have to trace. At that time in the boot process anyway, nothing
is being traced yet.

What is your verdict?

Andr
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peasthope
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 04:10:45 PM »

Andr, Sven & others,

afi> ... "OBER.... ", as it used to exist earlier, was re-instated ...

Whew, thanks!  I'm not completely off the track.

afi> If you used Sven's WMInstaller to install, the configuration data
would have been placed correctly for sure. 
If you used AosInst.Tool, did you exploit section "4. Set configuration strings?"

I used AosInst.Tool, ... "4. Set configuration strings?". 
It worked very well up to the Xmas2004 release.  I've
never burned a CD.  Seems a waste of plastic.

afi> What is your verdict?

Just noticed this document.
http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/Documentation/Installation
Will read it before more blundering.

Thanks,              ... Peter E.
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staubesv
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 03:04:31 PM »

Quote
ATA as with any 386 or 486.
A2 requires at least a Pentium processors.
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