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Author Topic: Help on Oberon OS and Language  (Read 15210 times)
sinu.nayak2001
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Posts: 22


« on: August 31, 2010, 02:39:50 PM »

Dear All,

I am new to this community. I am interested in Oberon after I came across this. Though there are a lot of papers/books on it, I found no history of evolution of this OS/Language at any common place.

I like to know which version of this language was created by Wirth and what is the latest version today.
I like to know which version of this OS was created by Wirth and what is the latest version today.

Now I am interested to install an Oberon system in my PC (Intel Pentium III, 258MB RAM).

What version of Oberon system is good to install? (Better if I can do so along with Windows, and using a USB drive)
What version of Oberon Language/Compiler I need to choose? (looking for a better language for learning)

For some days I am looking for a better language for concurrent programming (shared memory). Hope Oberon is the one. I read Hansen's paper (The invention of concurrent programming). I am looking for a better language with a clean notations and a good implementation for conditional synchronization.

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak
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staubesv
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Posts: 387



« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 03:53:34 PM »

Hi,

Some overview of the Oberon language family can be found at http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/language/genealogy

Wirth:
Language: Pascal, Module, Oberon, Oberon 07 (not sure about Oberon-2, Mössenböck?)
OS: Oberon System (originally for Ceres, ported to x86 by Pieter Muller)
Download: http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/downloads/index

Gutknecht:
Language: Active Oberon
OS: A2 (formerly AOS)
Download: http://www.bluebottle.ethz.ch/download.html

On your System:

Either Native Oberon (Older, no support anymore, Oberon-2) or A2 (Newer, still developed, Active Oberon, better USB support).
If you install one of these systems, the language and compiler are given. Native Oberon: OP2 compiler for Oberon-2 language. A2: PACO compiler for Active Oberon language (which is a superset of Oberon-2).

Active Oberon comes with build-in support of active objects. One of its features is synchronization using the AWAIT statement.

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sinu.nayak2001
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Posts: 22


« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 08:01:54 AM »

Hi,

I downloaded bluebottle. Is there any way to make my usb pen drive bootable for bluebottle. I think this will be more convenient.

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak
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staubesv
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Posts: 387



« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 12:45:59 PM »

This is quite simple: Boot A2 from CD-ROM, attach USB drive and start the installer (menu -> system -> installer). The installer can install A2 directly on your USB drive.
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sinu.nayak2001
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Posts: 22


« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 02:53:49 PM »

Hi staubesv,

Many thanks for your help.

It seems I have to burn a CD anyway. I had no facility to burn a CD, so I thought, if there is a way to write the bluebottle .iso to a usb stick, I can get away with the CD burning. Is there any tricky way? I had installed WinAOS, will it help to do this?
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staubesv
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 03:38:48 PM »

I've just wrote a little tutorial on how to install A2 from within WinAos, see http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/FAQ/Installation

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sinu.nayak2001
Newbie
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Posts: 22


« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 06:27:45 AM »

Hi staubesv,

Many thanks for your suggestion. I'll try the procedure.

Thanks and Regards,

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak
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sinu.nayak2001
Newbie
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Posts: 22


« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 02:53:18 PM »

Hi,

I did the following

1. Create folder /WinAos/Test/ (the folder must be on same hierarchy level as the Work folder is)

2. Include this folder in the WinAos search path by editing /WinAos/aos.ini (or myaos.ini if available)
[Configuration] Paths.Search = Work; [...] ;Test

Then I copy pasted the following commands one by one in Oberon Console.

3. Now execute the following commands (also found in Build.Tool)
# Compile all modules and generate ZIP files required by installer
Release.Build -b --zip --xml --path=../Test/ A2 ~

4. Then for USB I did
# If you want to create a bootable USB drive, link the USB boot image...
Linker.Link \P../Test/ \.Obx ../Test/USB.Bin 0100000H 1000H Kernel Traps UsbHubDriver UsbEhci UsbStorageBoot DiskVolumes DiskFS BootConsole

[I had to remove the last ~ , otherwise it was giving error]

5. Then I did
# If you want to create a bootable USB drive, rename the USB boot image to the standard boot image IDE.Bin
FSTools.CopyFiles -o ../Test/USB.Bin => ../Test/IDE.Bin ~

[this gives some error => expected = found! anything to do?]

[But somehow I got a file IDE.Bin and IDE.Bin~ in Test.]

6. Then
Step 4 Mount physical disk unter WinAos. Note: This requires WinAos to run with administrator privileges!
WinDisks.Install "PhysicalDrive0" "RW" ~

My hard disk is now visible in partition tool

Then I did
WinDisks.Install "PhysicalDrive1" "RW" ~

My usb stick is now visible in partition tool

7. Then I choose USB and started installation.

It gives error as...


Starting installation on partition PhysicalDrive1#1...
Formatting partition (Boot Loader: OBL.Bin, Boot File: USB.Bin) ...
Error   1 : Write on PhysicalDrive1 : 15687672 failed,  (error:  101)


Any idea what to do?
Am I doing right?

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sinu.nayak2001
Newbie
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Posts: 22


« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 05:48:09 AM »

Hi,

The whole weekend was dedicated to Oberon Installation. A lot of hit and trial...and finally succeed to overcome the above error. I dleted all partitions (fat32) from usb stick and created one with dos fat16. then files got copied. But when booted, it shows "Unknown flash type. disk boot failure, insert disk and press enter." What could be the problem? MBR problem?

I had downloaded A2CD.zip from bluebottle site. Burnt a CD. Booted. It says "1. floopy drive (1.44 MB) - Type 19. OBERON loading Invalid Init." Hope this is a bug, and I believe it doesn't depend on machine hardware...my machine is a pentium III 8000 Mhz, 256 RAM, USB stick is Transcend 8 GB. CD buring is also not working! Thought add it to bug report, but thought to get your opinion first.

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak
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sinu.nayak2001
Newbie
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Posts: 22


« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 05:55:59 AM »

Hi,

Native Oberon "for Dummies" seems promising. I don't have a floppy drive in my machine. Is there a way out with CD or USB stick?
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staubesv
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Posts: 387



« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 01:03:51 PM »

Quote
What could be the problem? MBR problem?
The Installer will install neither a MBR nor a boot manager. I've revised http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/wiki/FAQ/Installation and added some information about how to get the drive booting (Step 8 ).

Quote
"1. floopy drive (1.44 MB) - Type 19. OBERON loading Invalid Init."
Hmm... The init configuration string is used to initialize the graphics adapter which must come with a VESA-compatible BIOS. I can't remember any graphics chipset that doesn't support VESA...
To find out what VESA modes your graphics adapter supports, start the A2 boot manager (would be useful on your USB drive anyway). There is some information about what keys do what directly from the boot manager once it's started. IIRC, choose hardware information or something similar to get all list of all VESA modes supported by your graphics chipset.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 01:05:32 PM by staubesv » Logged
R.Auge
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Posts: 9


« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 08:36:12 PM »

Sinu:

So far I've had success using two methods:

Through WinAOS:
- mount the USB partition using WinDisks.Install "drive letter:" "RW" ~
- use the installer to format and install onto the USB drive
- reboot with scroll lock on and set BootVol1=AOS AosFS USB0#1 (when installing from WinAOS this will probably be set wrong)
- set ExtMemSize=768 (My system has 1GB RAM but it shares with on-board video)
- write the configuration using w, then c to continue.

Using the BlueBottle live CD:
- boot the live CD with Scroll Lock on and set ExtMemSize=768
- use the installer to format and install onto the USB drive.
- reboot with scroll lock on and set ExtMemSize=768 (My system has 1GB RAM but it shares with on-board video)
- write the configuration using w, then c to continue.

In either case I first had to format the USB stick with a HDD low-level formatter that supports USB drives just to make sure that it was initialized correctly and change the HDD boot sequence in the BIOS whenever I want to boot into BlueBottle;

This is of course assuming that you are installing from the precompiled packages.  I haven't tried installing a new build yet.
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sinu.nayak2001
Newbie
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Posts: 22


« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 12:16:21 PM »

Oh! Probably I am the only unlucky guy in this oberon world! Another day dedicated for it.

Anyway, it is the time to try installing Oberon on Hard disk. Unfortunately I have to loose my windows.

Is there a way to install Oberon directly to HDD, no bootable stuff...I mean everyday I shouldn't boot machine with some bootable media and then go to OS...
[Native oberon demands for a boot diskette..also native oberon for dummies...]

Is there any way to install it over a virtual machine?

I have WinAoS. How much different it is from Original AoS? Is the programming with compiler and all that is mostly same? I mean in case I fail to install Oberon or failed to get it work in my hardware, can WinAoS will fullfil my desire to learn Oberon language and OS?

[I searched for 3 hour over internet and there is no easy/one way to boot from USB using a floppy image/CD iso.]

Is the A2CD.iso working for you?
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cfbsoftware
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Posts: 107


WWW
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 12:55:35 PM »

Anyway, it is the time to try installing Oberon on Hard disk. Unfortunately I have to loose my windows.
Not necessarily. There is a version of the Oberon OS that is hosted on Windows. It is called PlugIn Oberon for Windows:

http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/downloads/index
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Chris Burrows
Astrobe v7.0 (Feb 2019): Oberon for ARM Cortex-M3, M4 and M7 Microcontrollers
http://www.astrobe.com
staubesv
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Posts: 387



« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 08:35:08 AM »

Quote
Is there a way to install Oberon directly to HDD, no bootable stuff...I mean everyday I shouldn't boot machine with some bootable media and then go to OS...
[Native oberon demands for a boot diskette..also native oberon for dummies...]

Generally, the "Oberon" system can be installed and booted from HDD. The partition where Oberon lives in must contain an Oberon Boot Loader (OBL) which is normally installed when you format a partition. Then, this partition must either be active (and the disk contains a MBR) or you need a boot manager.

Quote
I have WinAoS. How much different it is from Original AoS? Is the programming with compiler and all that is mostly same? I mean in case I fail to install Oberon or failed to get it work in my hardware, can WinAoS will fullfil my desire to learn Oberon language and OS?

WinAos is not much different from Native A2/Aos. The same compiler and language are used. Actually, most modules can be (and are) used for both WinAos and A2/Aos. Only the low-level modules that interacts with Windows (WinAos) or the machine (A2/Aos) are different.
Applications written for WinAos will most likely also run on A2/Aos.
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